Smoke and Mirrors
I guess I'm on a smoking kick this week, because I couldn't pass up the opportunity to highlight this great debate about smoking bans on the Politics Today board. Many areas have government-imposed smoking bans in restaurants, bars and other public areas -- and others are soon to follow suit. Whether you happen to be a smoker or not, you probably have an opinion on these bans and the effects of cigarette smoke. But what about smoking bans at work? Outlawing smoking completely? And what about banning trans fats? Foie gras? iVillager maggiep4948 dives headfirst into this hot potato of a topic, which quickly turns into a debate on the impact of tobacco vs. that of alcohol, the question of government restrictions in general and public health concerns. Take a look:
"The government bans are becoming absolutely insane. No more trans fat in restaurants. Don't you think people should be making that decision? After all, if we are going out to eat and paying for it, shouldn't it be our choice? If healthy eating is the issue, then pick something that is healthy on the menu or stay home and cook for yourself. Since everyone is so concerned about the next person and our government has strongly gone after the tobacco industry and the food industry.....what about the alcohol industry?
This kicked off a pretty intense discussion that covered a wide variety of opinions:
"Smoking is a health hazard, transfat is a health hazard? So is alcohol a health hazard to the person drinking it and to other people around them. Aren't all these bans with the assumption that it could harm you or someone else?"
"Complain all you want about not being able to smoke except outside or in your own home, tough nuggets. You choose to pollute your own lungs!"
"If YOU own an establishment, then YOU should decide what types of LEGAL activity are done within that establishment. If a patron has a problem with smelling bad... then they needn't enter."
"I don't think that you can allow public establishments the right to present an environment that presents a known health risk to patrons, even if they choose to be there. It's a situation ripe for lawsuits. "
There were more than a few replies that echoed wary sentiments such as these:
"I don't need the government protecting me from myself."
"Many of our actions inadvertently harm others. We can't ban them all."
Finally, this quote made me blink more than a few times and caused a flurry of responses:
"Smokers are drug users and addicts, period. They should be treated as such."
Yowza. I'm not even going to touch that one.
Where do you come down on this issue? Of course I think we can all agree that cigarette smoke is definitely a health hazard -- but do you feel that smoking bans go too far? Or maybe not far enough? What about other types of public health issues? Are you in favor of more government intervention for the common good? Or do you want to just smoke and eat your trans fats in peace? Let me know if your city has enacted smoking bans and how you feel about these issues.
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Can I say something about trans fats? The problem with them is that lots of times we cant "make a choice" about whether or not to consume them because they are hidden in foods. Restaurants don't include ingredient lists, do they? So how do we know we're eating them? Furthermore, why would you WANT to eat them? Seriously, I think some people need protection from themselves. It's like saying, "I want to jump off a cliff - it's legal, why are you trying to stop me from doing it???" The people who are against banning trans fats subscribe to this line of reasoning. So the people that say it is our choice whether to consume trans fats or not are missing the big picture.
I would like to comment on this. I would like to first say that we have fought for many years for this to be a FREE country! May we be free?
First, smoking is not drug use, maybe alcohol is. It does impair you temporarily, does it not? You hear about so many people dying from both. Why do they not attack the acoholics. They actually have to have facilities for them, not smokers?
And as for kicking us out in the cold. Why not make fat people and acoholics sit outside and eat and drink? It does affect us all in some way, state, or mind, doesn't it? How do you feel when you see someone smoking? A 450 pound man, who cant walk by himself because he cant carry his own weight? or a person who is so intoxicated, that he is hitting his wife or drove drunk and hit a small boy who was riding his bike to little timmy's house? How do those things make you feel? Does that not make you feel just as sick as that slight smell of smoke coming across the room. And I do understand about secondhand smoke in restaraunts, but bars?
I think it is ridiculous to not allow smoke in bars. How long has this 'tradition" of smokey bars been around? Since there was such a thing as a bar. People who do not want to be exposed to it, shouldnt go!! Period! And if a person want to go to the bar and enjoy a cold beer and a smoke, they should be allowed to! We are in America! The home of the free! Well at least that is what we thought, huh?
It doesnt seem like such a big deal when all we do is point fingers at each other, but what we need to do is be teaming up to the real reality problems, that are all happening in front of our faces daily, and yet we critize smokers and over-weight people? What about the companys that are producing this stuff? Or lets think bigger problems, like how are we going to fix this world from global warming? Or how are we going to get peace in the middle east?What about all the kids who are dying in Iraq fighting for the freedom we supposedly have? Lets focus on these issues before we point our fingers to smokers and fat ppl.
My husband and I do smoke!! And we do not go any where we cannot smoke! If we do decide to eat out, we go where we can SMOKE! We do not go out very much, I spend the extra on steaks, shrimp or whatever and cook it at home, its a lot better. Do you know what the people do to your food? Not only is there trans fat, but we have found hair, a roach and things that do not belong in my food. So I prepare our food myself that way I know what is in it.
And as far as the high up jerks that are trying to tell us where to smoke or what to eat, they need to take a look at theirselves, they are fat, lazy and most of them smoke and drink way to much. So who do they think they are to tell us what to do.
Mu husband and I ban these places where we cannot smoke, we do not do business with them and we are passing this own to everyone. We have the right to ban these places.
Where is our freedom in OUR country?
I am all for people having the right to smoke. However, I do not think anyone should have the right to actively poison anyone else. Carbon Monoxide is a poison and a byproduct of all forms of smoke.
Alcohol is also a poison, when you consume alcohol in a crowded area you aren't poisoning everyone else. Smoking in an enclosed area will always be harmful to others. A recent blurb in Self or Shape magazines (one of the wife's magazines) stated it takes 48 hours to dispel the carbon monoxide from one night in a smoky bar/restaurant.
Yes we are in America, home of the brave and land of the free, but the tiniest amount of arsenic or rat poison will get you thrown in jail. Poison yourself at home and away from me while I enjoy a night out.
So many comments, so few characters to use. Where to start? A - you want to smoke, go for it, but keep your carcinogens in your own lungs. I'm all for banning smoke in any place a non-smoker may be subjected to it. Sure, it's a 'free' country and that's impinging someone's rights technically, but 'rights' works both ways, and your unhealthy habits affect mine. B - Trans fats. Bad. Personal choice. Good. I'm smart enough to know that if I go to a restaurant, I risk exposure to unhealthy ingredients. I have a choice. Go out and maybe eat some trans fats (or spit, pig guts, chicken beaks, or rotten cheese) or stay home and cook my own food. But I prefer to leave the opportunity out there for people who want to eat them. Then again, why not just ban everything unhealthy? Your vulgar mouth raises my blood pressure. Let's ban profanity. The bus smoke makes me cough. Let's ban buses. Let's make daily cardio mandatory. Obesity and heart problems kill, right? See the trend? Scary. One baby step at a time to no freedom.
once again government is telling us how to live, eat and breathe. if we let them we won't be living the dream of being a true american. maybe i'm from the old school...why aren't we fighting this???
I'm all for banning smoking in public places. Go smoke yourself to death at home. Why do non-smokers need to be poisoned with your second hand smoke?
We live in Las Vegas were a smoking ban just went into effect. As it was in California when the ban went into effect there, everyone thought many businesses would go bankrupt. But just as in California, it hasn't happened. And I'm sorry but this makes no sense: "How long has this 'tradition" of smokey bars been around?" What does tradition have to do with the right to breathe healthy air?
My daughter is an asthmatic, so I have a dog in the fight about smoking in some public places. I am in favor of not allowing smoking in restraunts. I don't think it's quite fair to ban smoking in bars. I know, that it's not a totally logical stand, but many children and adults eat out alot more that the majority of either frequent bars. Bars are not exactly health clubs and while the same can be said for many restraunts, a person visitng the latter at least is there to eat and can usually make some type of healthy choice.
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